Thursday, December 15, 2011

Change Ends

On Monday night, the new Labour Cabinet at Thanet District Council, decided to remove from the agenda and defer any decision, on the application for new leases and a Travelodge hotel at Hartsdown Park by Margate Football Club to a future meeting early next year.

Readers may recall that there has been an intense period of scrutiny and public consultation on the subject since September. The consultation results were to be heard and any subsequent decision or recommendation, was scheduled to be taken by Cabinet on December 12th, in an effort to meet the club's own December deadline; formal application for the revised leases only being received in August from the club.

Instead, the new Leader of the Council, Clive Hart, has called for a Cabinet/ Shadow Cabinet and public 'walk-about' at Hartsdown on December 22nd at 2pm, so that local people can have an opportunity to see the site and ask further questions.

The Conservative Group, in the spirit of cooperation, are quite happy to support this exercise and suggest, that anyone who has a particular view or opinion on the preservation or potential development of our public open spaces, to represent to Clive and his new Labour team, should come along and join us, next Thursday afternoon.

PS.. Looking at the evolving weather picture from the Met Office, Thanet appears to be right in the path of a monster low pressure trough which is due to hit this evening. So if you have any loose items in the garden, best tie them down and don't park your car under any big trees!

39 comments:

Tim Clark said...

I think to be fair if the Conservatives had been the incoming group they would probably have done something similar. Cooperation with the (temporarily I hope) ruling group and demonstrating a more mature approach to Opposition than Labour showed is only going to be to your benefit. Negative way, as Michael has pointed out, rarely works in the long run.

Ren Wood said...

Tim, really impressed that you seem to have understood something Michael has said. It always comes over to me as rambling at diverse tangents, but with an underlying objective not dissimilar to that of the BBC.

Michael Child said...

Simon, many thanks for posting about this issue, I think I am beginning to understand it.

What I can’t quite follow is that you seem to be saying here that the new cabinet should have decided whether or not to grant some or all of the leases at last Monday’s cabinet meeting, is that correct?

The inference here is also that is what the Conservative cabinet would have done had they still been in power, is that also correct?

For political reasons you may not wish to say what decision they would have made and I suppose if there is considerable ill will between the old an new cabinet it could be better not to say what the old cabinet would have done, so I quite understand if you don’t want to answer this next question, so please don’t think I am trying to pin you down to giving an answer.

What would the conservative cabinet have done?

DrM. said...

Michael

I can't say what the Conservative Cabinet would have done on Monday evening because there was no opportunity to debate the matter in chamber with Labour and the Independents and reach a decision.

This will now be a matter for the Labour Group to decide and most likely either or (A) Deciding the matter on the spot at the next Cabinet meeting or (B) sending the matter to full council in February.

Michael Child said...

I have just discovered your comment on the Labour press release, which at least clarifies your position, although am a bit confused as to how making a decision on the spot would be cynical political posturing.

DrM. said...
There has been a full public consultation process and everyone involved is quite familiar with Hartsdown park and the plans. With planning permission granted this is simply a question of whether a 125 year lease will be granted in order to build the hotel and that is really a matter for full council to decide. Anything else is simply cynical political posturing.
14 December 2011 14:23

Jeremy Jacobs said...

Simon, Assuming the funding is in place, when do you anticipate work starting at Hartsdown Park?

DrM. said...

Michael

I obviously didn't make myself clear but hopefully this blog entry explains things better!

Jeremy. I think you need to ask Mr Piper that question as he was seeking a final resolution this month or an end to the project.

Tim Clark said...

Ren Wood, you have fallen into the classic trap of somehow thinking that Michael is thick or stupid and left-wing. Simon, who obviously is better informed, rarely makes that mistake.
Ren's a pretty odd name, short for render, sticky mess stuck to walls or rendition, illegal activity undertaken by right-wing famatics?

Tim Clark said...

Tautology Simon. Troughs are always low pressure; if they're high pressure they're called ridges

DrM. said...

Silly me!

Ren Wood said...

Short for Renée and a bit more gentlemanly deference would not go amiss. As to Michael's intellect, not in question whilst he is clearly well read. That said he does ramble, his logic is not always clear to us lesser mortals and I am not alone in questioning his agenda at times.

By the way, what is Tim short for? Timid and only brave when attacking ladies on a blogsite or timber, thick as, if you catch my drift.

Tim Clark said...

Renee
Touche
It stands for Timothy

Michael Child said...

Simon as I said I am getting there, after today I intend to start pursuing some local issues with the new Labour leader and the Labour group as a whole. I don’t think I ever really got to understand the two previous Conservative leaders or the Conservative group properly. Frankly I hope to do better this time, as I really don’t think anyone else will bother and the issues are still there.

Tim Ren, in all honesty I am a bit of a slow thinker, I get there in the end usually, but do a lot of stuff with my hands, watercolour and sewing this evening, the stuff drifts around in my mind and I tend to write bits down as I go, hence the difficult to follow.

Anonymous said...

Assuming the funding is in place, when do you anticipate neglecting the rights of local residents!
Jeremy your jumping the gun here by a long way, not surprising as its the way the club like to operate.
This is but the tip of this iceberg, no amount of funny handshakes and pathetic "boys club" posturing will see this through. Too much ghosting has been seen on this already, now it's time to stop this ridiculous idea once and for all. The football club do not own hartsdown park, mfc is no more than a seaside footy club with dilussions of being as big as Chelsea! In the current climate they will be lucky to survive the next twelve months. The message is very clear... Get your grubby hands of hartsdown park

John Holyer said...

Simon please see extract below. If only, if only this were TDC. The sad truth is that TDC Councillors do not have what it takes. It takes talent, drive and determination and not the endless silly pygmy political bickering, which we have with TDC. Please, please prove me wrong.

"Hammersmith & Fulham council (H&F) has announced that they are proposing to cut council tax next year by 3.75 per cent. This will be the fifth year in six where the council has managed to cut council tax. This saving is due to several cost cutting measures including combining services with Westminster and Kensington & Chelsea councils in order to cut management and overhead costs by half.

This tax cut will be realised without resorting to the kind of ‘bleeding stump’ approach of shutting libraries and cutting services that some councils have taken, say H&F:

“While planning to cut [council] tax, H&F is intending to freeze parking charges, keep all its libraries open, maintain weekly or even twice-weekly refuse collection and plough £1.3 million into extra town centre police. It is also one of just two councils in London offering homecare to people in the ‘greater moderate’ as well as ‘substantial’ or ‘critical’ banding.”

Further savings are to be made by selling off underused property, co-locating services among other measures in order to pay off about half the council’s debt and reduce annual interest payments."

An after thought: how long will it be before 'anonymouse' pops up squeaking that I should move to Hammersmith and Fulham.

Michael Child said...

Simon any idea what has happened to the council’s press release feed on your sidebar? This isn’t a councillor question just one old geek to another, yesterday it was showing a 2 week old press release now it’s showing a 3 week old one.

Jeremy Jacobs said...

Anonymous 12:18 You're right Margate FC don't own the ground at Hartsdown.

(Pity you have to hide under the name "Anonymous". What's it like being a coward?)

1 o'clock Rob said...

@ John Holyer, which rich councils do you reckon we should team up with to combine services?

Anonymous said...

John,

Hammersmith & Fulham clearly understand the problem and can figure out the solution, that kind of joined up thinking has never been apparrent in TDC for as long as i can remember.
A true beacon of light in a pool of grim excuses, perhaps their model of operation could be used on a more national basis to show our council how the job should and could be done.

John Holyer said...

TO 1'OCLOCK ROB at 18:32,

What causes you to believe that everyone in Hammersmith & Fulham is "rich". Besides rich or poor, left or right has nothing to do with it. It is about a council having the brains, the will and the determination to make things better.

I suggest that you go back and read the article more carefully and think about it. Whining about the so called rich and throwing money at a problem has never solved a problem. Surely, you must have realised that by now. It is about using the money cleverly; and that requires initiative and brains.

John Holyer said...

Ren Wood,

What do you perceive Michael's underlying objective to be and why?

Anonymous said...

Jeremy,
Pathetic and childish and your supposed to be some kind of mentor.... your a bad joke. I can only hope that there are plenty more like you passing words of wisdom on to the aimless wonders at MFC, it will only help to do them more damage.

Ren Wood said...

John, if I perceived Michael's underlying objective it would also follow that I understood his often rambling comments. Sometimes I think he genuinely seeks to take our administrators to task and at other times I wonder if his objective is not simply to discredit them for political purposes. Then again, perhaps he just enjoys rambling.

Perhaps you could enlighten me with your interpretation though I have noticed elsewhere that you tend to leap in to defend the attacked or questioned. Even that odd photographer who treats my gender as some kind of peep show.

Anonymous said...

Can anon at 10:39 PM please take on board that 'your supposed to...' should be 'you are' or, in its abbreviated form 'you're' being part of the verb 'to be' rather than in the possessive sense.

Bad example to the kids who visit these blogs!

John Holyer said...

To Ren Wood,

Ren,

Thank you, I now understand what you are implying. You only suspect that Michael has an underlying objective that might or might not be malign. Personally, I find such nebulous suspicions gratuitously damaging. But then possibly that might be put down to my watching of the Jeremy Kyle show. Still, I am probably being too harsh and I apologise.

You have now turned your gaze upon me. You say that you have noticed how I tend to leap in to defend the attacked or questioned. If this is true then it is just that I believe any argument must be reasoned. Especially when that argument is adversely critical. If we wish to judge another then it behoves us to produce the evidence.

Most of all I despise bullies. I also fear those who claim to know what is best for me based upon their own mores and prejudices, and then proceed to impose their values upon me, whether I like it or not.

Turning to Peter's photos. This is my fault because I failed to make my point clear. I was not defending Peter. I was defending those women who choose to be photographed or painted in this way. They have every right to do so if they so wish. If this offends others then so be it. They should not be so easily offended.

Ren Wood said...

John, I think the whole issue of beauty contests, girlie magazines or nude photographs of women on line is demeaning to women in general There is also evidence that such can excite the more perverted of men to go on to commit crimes against women.

Whether women consent to photographs or not is not my issue here. It is whether such is in the best interests of gender equality and mutual respect. I do not intend to labour this for I accept it is but my opinion. You may wish to take it further with Harriet Harman or Germaine Greer.

I also think I made my uncertainties and lack of understanding of some of Michael's comments abundantly clear and there was nothing nebulous about it. I agree you were reading too much into it and being too hasrsh.

John Holyer said...

Ren Wood,

My experience has taught me that confronting entrenched militant feminism is boring and a waste of my time. It is a subject best discussed between women.

Michael Child said...

Ren I will try and make this clear.

My objective with councillors at the moment, something that changes as circumstances change, is to try and get all of them to sort out some of the problems we have locally.

Until one of the previous administrations councillors answers the questions I have been posting on the blogs about council owned assets in Ramsgate, see http://thanetonline.blogspot.com/2011/12/day-off-ramble-tracey-emin-westwood.html where Chris Wells is engaging in the latest dialogue about this, I can only conclude that councillors have been engaging in deliberate acts of spite towards areas of Thanet where their opposition councillors are in a majority.

I think that getting some answers to this one could help to stop this by highlighting the issue, an important objective here being to ensure that the new Labour administration don’t immediately seek vengeance on the poor devils who are trying to live and trade in areas of Thanet where there is a majority of Conservative councillors.

This is a difficult and sensitive issue and I am only too aware that it is only Chris and Simon who are likely to respond to my questions about this, the fact that they are at least prepared to engage in some sort of public dialogue about this difficult issue, means that I hold them in the highest esteem. Where they my ward councillors I would vote for them.

Ren Wood said...

John, don't know whether you are being deliberately provocative, but there is a huge difference between militant feminism and simply asking that women be treated with respect rather than objects to be leered at.

Michael, point accepted though I do not really think the last council treated areas differently because of the make up of the voters. It is fanciful suggestions like that which caused me to wonder about your agenda in the first place.

Tim Clark said...

Margate on a Saturday night is full of women dressed to be leered at. Presumably they were dressed by the more perverted of men. And if you really want an extreme example of public female auto-nakedness just try visiting Newcastle any night of the week, and day of the year. If you really want to make women second-class citizens just keep banging on about the likes of Peter - these women have chosen to pose naked; what Ren is suggesting is just another form of tyrany. And no, I don't have a down on women, I, like John just don't like people harping on about what they think is best for us.

Ren Wood said...

Tim, unfortunately the perverts who tend to get aroused by nude pictures do not tend to attack those who dress like tarts in town centres, but usually some ordinary unfortunate female walking home from work in the lonlier parts of town.

I am also not harping on about what I consider best for you, or anyone else, but responding to John Holyer. I think I am also entitled to have opinions and respect your right to differ.

Interestingly I see over on Big News that someone has referred to our photographer friend as Porno Pete so ecvidently I am not alone in my dislike of what he does.

DrM. said...

No more comments on amateur photography please. It's off topic and running a little out of control now.

Everyone has had their say and agree to disagree so let's move on and discuss Da Vinci's cartoons or something lighter instead!

Michael Child said...

Ren, one iconic council owned prime site vacant or derelict in a town would be unfortunate, two could be a coincidence, we have a royal residence, a royal pavillion, a medium sized music venue, a seafront amusement site, a functional museum full of artefacts, an historic gunpowder magazine, five miles of wartime tunnels, not to mention Nero’s which the council demolished although I tried to stop them. Several other more minor council owned sites like the old tourist information office, the Harbour Lights Café. This isn’t some mad private landlord, our council own them all.

Simon I am sure I could provide an artwork as a talking point for you, any particular person or thing that you think would make a good subject?

Tim Clark said...

Michael. How about a piece of artwork demonstrating the difference between "its" and "it's"

John Holyer said...

Ren, I suppose I am being deliberately provocative in that I am testing your argument against common sense. The consenting artistic nude has been with us since time immemorial. Do want the Tate, or the Louvre, etc to remove these paintings for fear they might arouse the beast in men and denigrate all women? Taking your argument to its logical conclusion, women should be dressed in the burkha.

I am sure that this is not want you want. You are cross but I'm not sure why. So suffice to say that I respect your opinion.

For the record I have great empathy for women. For, with one notable toddler exception, I live in an all female family; even our two dogs are female.

Michael Child said...

Tim, Typo see http://www.michaelsbookshop.com/raspberry/id4.htm

Tim Clark said...

Michael - see Smudger

Michael Child said...

Tim didn’t get The Gazette due to the shop being busy, children being on holiday and so on, can’t find her column on the paper’s website, do you have the url?

Anonymous said...

I used to work for the Thanet Times back in the days when it had page three girls (I understand that is no longer the case, I am exiled now and haven't seen a copy for years). Local girls would write (yes, that's how long ago...before emails) into the paper and ask to be photographed in a state of undress. They did this entirely of their own free will, and were not even paid. Why did they do this? Maybe they had ambitions to become models? Maybe they thought it would be a bit of fun? Or maybe, just maybe, they enjoyed being female and liked to show off their, er, attributes? In any case they were not exploited and would no doubt tell any interfering feminists where to go in no uncertain terms.