Saturday, January 12, 2008

Spot the Ball (Turner) Competition

According to the Thanet Labour Group and Cllr Hart, the sea view, immediately behind the photo at the Rendezvous site on Margate's Fort Hill, will be obscured by some hidden Tory scheme to build a skyscraper or similar building.

However, the Conservative Group, led by Cllr Ezekiel, says this isn't so and as a result, a number of us pitched-up for a group photo this morning to stand on the spot which will allegedly have its view obscured.

Now the photo is online, you might want to look back on it when the Turner Contemporary is built and see who was right. In the meantime, you can use it for a 'Spot the ball' or even 'building' competition!

51 comments:

tony flaig bignews said...

Brilliant now why dont you go and stand in Mill Lane car park on a week day and see where shoppers and later on visitors to Turner will have their view of parking spaces obstructed by council employees cars.

Instead of cheap stunts from both tory and labour you could sort out structural problems like parking for the public.

DrMoores said...

I'm never quite sure what the real problem with Mill Lane is. When it's full I park under Argos further down the hill and I've only ever had to do that once and there's more than enough space in the alternate.

Ewen Cameron said...

Agreed. I park in Mill Lane (as a private individual) at least once a week during the working day, often more. Yes, it's often near-full, but I haven't been unable to park there in the last year.

Nor is it exclusive to Council employees. A large number of my own Firm's employees at our Hawley Square office use it every day.

Ken Gregory said...

A view is a view, no one complained when the Tongue Sands tower fell into the sea. If a change is made, so what, wind farms will appear, Turner centre may appear, nuclear power stations may appear, in the wider view they will also vanish.We, as a species, change the short term view. That is what Darwin was all about. Lets get on with life and not worry too much about the long term future (Iam talking 1,000 years plus)

Michael Child said...

Interesting point Ken, I had often wondered how you chaps on the planning committee came to your conclusions. I remember having a similar discussion about the view in Ramsgate back in 2004 with some of the planning officers click here to read it so you have my sympathy.

Mr Friday said...

Ewan - do your firm's staff pay to park in Mill Lane ?

Ken Gregory said...

Michael,

My view has always been that we as a species will leave a 'footprint'. The dinosaurs did, we now dig them up and exhibit them as part of history. Whilst I understand , and to some extent agree, that we should control our developement, I also feel that we are part of History, and ,as such, should also be a little relaxed about what we do

Ken Gregory said...

PS

There are also a few female planning members

Tony Beachcomber said...

Clive Hart must have hit a raw nerve for the Tory group to go to these lengths to say NO!

Surely the response is a bit is a bit naff, more like a play ground gathering. Thanet's political elite look more like a gathering of fourth form prefects than elected representatives. Somehow I wouldn't pitch this as a vote winner.

Anonymous said...

"In the meantime, Margate, has I'm told won its funding to open the new, muli-million Turner Centre on the harbour, the one with no Turner paintings at all. My hairdresser commented that the money would be better spent opening a "Chav" centre, a celebration of all things Chav, decorated in Burberry and which may attract far more visitors to the town than any attempt to celebrate fine art at the reluctant taxpayers' expense. You know what? She's quite right."

Simon Moores 20/10/2004

DrMoores said...

Hoisted by my own quote but like the correspondent in the letters page of the Thanet Gazette, yesterday and 4 years later, I wasn't aware of the facts as they later materialised. Mind you, I rather think my hairdresser would still approve her 'Chav centre' idea regardless. What do you think?

Anonymous said...

Nice photo. It was very kind of Cliftonville Nursing Home to let the old man on the right out for the day.


Gordon Blue

DrMoores said...

In regard to Cllr Hart, it would be nice if he got the facts right at least once in a while! Otherwise the 6th form prefects have to turn-up to contradict him, "again",

Anonymous said...

I would like to know what the good looking man in the middle is doing with his hands


Sue

DrMoores said...

Classic footballer's pose when faced with a free kick shot in front of the goal. Protecting one's assets!

Anonymous said...

He was out shooting chavs!

Anonymous said...

Is the one that looks like the Yorkshire Ripper the same guy related to the woman on the news?



Kind Heart

Anonymous said...

The nerdy one next to the old man from the nursing home looks cute, but I still think the good looking one in the middle is his hands on some big news.


Sue

Tony Beachcomber said...

So there will be no large building on the Turner site. Well at least Cllr Hart has managed to get a denial.
When the small Turner Center is built will TDC be displaying any of its seaside art collection in the center. I have a feeling once the EKMT/TDC fued is over, I expect TDC will be in reposession of a large valuable art collection. If it is not put on public display there could be a temptation to sell part of it . Afterall TDC is Tory controlled and we all know what they are like at selling off the family silver.

Anonymous said...

Tony has the big news! How about this concerning views? Do the Labour Team have something here about the view after all?

"Ironically, Turner painted many of his most famous sunset scenes on this stretch of the Kent coastline and on many evening during the year, one can understand why as they can be breathtaking as the sun descends into the sea in the West."

Simon Moores 3 Apr 2004

Anonymous said...

I still think the one in the middle is hot


Sue

Anonymous said...

I still think the one in the middle is hot


Sue

Michael Child said...

sue did you manage to spot the ball

Anonymous said...

I think they are well hidden, Michael.
However, wearing my amateur social psychologist's hat, the alpha male and thus real 'group leader' is the one in the central position wearing a well known leather jacket, not Sandy who has accepted a junior position on the right extremity of the group. By deferring position in this way, the 'notional' leader has subliminally and subconsciously accepted the 'superiority' in the 'pecking' order. The first sign of an impending 'palace' coup in the Conservative Group?

DrMoores said...

Hate to dash your coup conspiracy theory but it just happened to be taken with my camera. The other photos, taken with other cameras, including the Kent Messenger, will show different arrangements!

Michael Child said...

Sorry arrangements of what

Michael Child said...

ken sorry just caught up would you like me to delete the comment

DrMoores said...

Arrangements - The camera owner normally stands close to the middle when the snap is taken.

Anonymous said...

How big is it?

Michael Child said...

size is immaterial

Cllr David Green said...

To return on topic for a second. The tories are just about to add to the taxpayers bill for the Turner to the tune of £750,000 to "de dual" the dual carriageway at fort hill. If the bunch of jokers in the photo are to be believed this is just to convert the perfectly good road into a grassy bank! I'm sure all of us could think of better uses for this highways money. Personally, I would spend it sorting traffic at westwood.

Anonymous said...

Arrangements - The camera owner normally 'takes' the picture, unless he has an ego the size of a planet and has to be 'in' all their pictures!

DrMoores said...

The camera owner took several photos of which only a few were usable, eyes closed in the sunlight etc. The "camera owner" also happens to be a councillor and thus had to figure in the collective shot. No other group photos were available at the time!

Happy now?

DrMoores said...

I've deleted one comment from one of our more puerile and abusive readers.

What sets ThanetLife aside I hope, is its strict moderation and level of more intelligent involvement and contribution from those who visit. Individuals with "Special needs" in the way they wish to express themselves will, I'm sure find a more comfortable and condusive four letter space elsewhere!

Ewen Cameron said...

Nice to see Cllr Green is still firmly in the “what have the Romans ever done for us” mode.

Apart from the road having to be converted back to single carriageway to provide access to the Turner, it’s also a rare opportunity to substitute green space for tarmac. It’s a great viewpoint, and when both the Turner and the Rendezvous are both completed, I can see it becoming an attraction.

Plus, this piece of road has an appalling safety record. Several fatalities in recent years. Is that tolerable? Not in my book, but Cllr Green doesn’t seem to think that’s a problem.

Mr Friday – you asked if my Firm’s staff pay for parking in Mill Lane – a fair question. Yes, they do. As do I when not on Council business. As the great majority of this takes place in the evening, when the car park is closed, the “perk” of a parking pass is limited in value, to say the least.

I also get a pass to the Albion Street car park in Broadstairs (which is in my Ward), again, when on Council business only, but this one is almost invariably full, plus I can walk there from my office in five minutes, so it’s not yet been used.

Regards to all

Cllr Ewen Cameron

Mr Friday said...

Ewan, the reason I asked whether your staff paid for parking was relating to Tony's original point about the car park being full of council employees staff cars.

Now, I would imagine what upsets people more than having limited car parking available is that these council staff do not pay for their parking whilst filling up the car park (unless I have been misinformed - I would be grateful if someone could clarify that) and are exempt from the rising car park charges which affect the rest of us.

Ewen Cameron said...

Hi Mr Friday

I have my views about Council employees being able to park “for free”, but that’s a story for another day, and another debate.

If you pay for parking, on a long-term basis (i.e. annually), you get one of those nice round TDC discs with a hologram in them that everyone with similar status gets. You stick it in the windscreen, and park.

I’ve got one, but it’s limited, as per my previous post (it has a bar code, which, I presume, tells the car park attendants where and when I am allowed to park). I don’t work in our Firm’s Margate office, but do park there often – it’s cheaper to do it “as you go”.

The similarity of windscreen discs may have given rise one of the many Thanet urban myths, which include the Mill Lane car park being entirely parked up by council employees.

In fact, the disk displayed by a paying, long term business user looks identical to a Council employee’s disc, which, I think, may have given rise to an impression not entirely based on fact.

With regards

Ewen Cameron
a.k.a "the nerdy one" - I am delighted to learn I look cute....

(Cllr, but largely paying parker)

Tony Beachcomber said...

Ewen, this is lunacy. TDC cannot find the money to repair and open the Tudor House, Margate Museum is under threat of closure. To top that there is only one tourist attraction open on a permanent basis in margate for 2008. Yet money can be found to grass over a road. If fort hill is such an accident blackspot where are the traffic calming and speed restrictions.Afterall most accidents are due to speeding and people using mobile phones. Strange as it may seem the last fatalities were people travelling up the hill and if by your addmission this is bad, why hasn't something like traffic calming been put in place.

Anonymous said...

Oh why be so upset, Tony. I have pressed the Doc and others for a true cost to us Council Tax payers of The crazy concept of a TC and I have been told that its all funded by KCC, SEEDA and others and will cost you and me nothing and that we should be happy that it is going to come to Margate. No-one mentioned the cost of re-jigging Fort Hill and is it really true that TDC will have to finance this? If so the truth about the TCs costs so far are being obfuscated. For example, who has had to cough up for salaries so far and the £6m wasted already? Whats the concern about another £750,000 of tax payers money being wasted? Pales into insignificance when compared to almost £7million that no-one has even apologised for!

Anonymous said...

11.12pm try this:

"£20 million pounds for the Turner Centre means higher poll tax bills for the local population, already double that I paid in London last year and £20 million wasted, when it could have been put to much better use on other schemes, such as revitalising the crumbling façade of Margate seafront or knocking down the clock tower traffic lights; another on of the council's universally despised "bright ideas".
What comes next I wonder, the "Hanging Gardens of Cliftonville"?

Simon Moores 3 April 2004

DrMoores said...

And I would say to myself.. four years later and with the benefit of better information, that "at the time, you were wrong, because it has nothing to do with the community charge."

While I appreciate how hard 11:17 is working digging up my comment sof four years ago, has he a point to make or is he simply collecting teh quotes of 'Chairman Mo'?

Little Blue Book Waver said...

It is always interesting to see views change, Dr Moores, particularly when original views, expressed by an intelligent thinking man with no axe to grind at the time, alter so dramatically.

The 'Thoughts of Chairman Mo' over the past 4 years have on most topics remained pretty consistent. I still find the switch on view-point about TC odd and I have not been convinced by your 'Pauline' conversion despite your previous explainations as to why! I hope I will not descend into obsession about the issue and become like 'obsessed 1.08am' or 'irritating bloke'.
My worst fears are that the TC will not do what everyone hopes it will do and that a large financial burden will come home to roost with TDC Council Tax payers as Chairman Mo predicted some years ago. We will have to wait and see.

Mr Friday said...

Bit of a smokescreen to say the costs will not be met by TDC and are being met by KCC etc. It's a fact of life that around 75-80% of our Council Tax goes to KCC so, however it is presented, the fact remains that the taxpayers of Thanet are stumping up large amounts of cash for the TC. Plus I need to mention that the "Community Charge" has not existed since 1993 but perhaps that is a little pedantic.

My grips isn't really that the Mill Lane car park is taken up with TDC staff's cars as, apart from the lower levels, I don't believe this is true. What I do feel justified to gripe about, however, is the fact that TDC staff do not have to contribute financially to their car parking whilst every other Thanet resident is subject to rises in parking charges every year. Most other local councils in Kent have their own car parks attached to the offices which are not for general use so TDC cannot say the situation applies to everyone else too.

PS - Good luck with the pilot exams Dr M.

Anonymous said...

Our words can come back to haunt us:


"Why the fiscally challenged planners at Kent County Council in conjunction with Thanet Council, believe that opening a gallery in a famous artist’s name, with none of his paintings on display, will suddenly transform Margate into a cultural Mecca and attract hordes of cultural day-trippers is anyone’s guess. It’s all rather like the fiasco of positioning the Royal Armouries in Leeds and not London with the net result that it’s losing money hand over fist because nobody wishes to visit Leeds when it’s cheaper and easier to visit sites such as the Guggenheim museum in Bilbao."

Thoughts of Chairman Mo -3 Apr 2004

There are many in Thanet who have said as much for the past 3 years and who are now labelled as negative about Margate.

Anonymous said...

Good luck with the twin engined pilots ticket, Doc. Love the idea of 'Chairman Mo'! Might go and trawl through the archives for a 'gem' or two myself like 'Power comes from the barrel of a gun' or 'The longest journey begins with the first step' or perhaps " Sh*t happens!".

Anonymous said...

This looks uncannily like the line up for Dad's Army !

Anonymous said...

Would have had more faith in the cast of Dad's Army than this lot!

Anonymous said...

Letter from Cllr. Clive Hart in today's YourThanet that says:

"As requested – the facts on Fort Hill
So the Conservatives say I
should stick to the facts when
talking about the de-dualling of
Fort Hill in Margate and in
relation to any future
development of the Rendezvous
car park site (last week’s
Yourthanet).Well, here goes:
Fact 1: On page 11 of the
Rendezvous Marketing Plan
document, it indicates through a
map a large area at cliff-top level
marked in red and explains that
this area will potentially be made
available for development when
Fort Hill has been de-dualled.
Fact 2: At paragraph 3.7, the
document makes further
reference to the possibility of a
cliff-top development.
Fact 3: The report from Kent
Highway Services on the
de-dualling of Fort Hill says “the
nature of the scheme is such that
specific consultation has not been
appropriate”.
Fact 4: To date, neither TDC
nor KCC has made any proposals
in relation to the provision of
public parking for the proposed
Turner Contemporary. Indeed, at
several public events residents
have been told this simply isn’t
necessary.
Fact 5: I am an elected
Labour councillor for Margate
and Cliftonville, and I would
be failing in my representative
duties if I did not voice my
sincere concerns about these
issues which seriously
affect my direct area of
responsibility.
Fact 6: The Conservative
councillors asking me to
stick to the facts are councillors
for Birchington (Alasdair Bruce)
and Broadstairs (Ewen
Cameron).

Cllr Clive Hart
KCC member for Margate and Cliftonville"

Well. Thank goodness for some alert Councillors. Were the rest of you asleep?

Anonymous said...

Clive no not asleep, just listening and watching, and waiting!!

Anonymous said...

Is that the same Cllr Hart who isn't bothered about lies, just the timing of them?
Cliftonville cleanup - No we still haven't forgotten!

Ewen Cameron said...

Oh Dear. I think we are in danger of wandering into “Aliens invade Romford” territory here.

Cllr Hart seems keen on fact. The word, or its plural, account for more than one word in twenty of his letter. Perhaps we should consider fallacies as well.

The Rendezvous Marketing Plan, which is a joint KCC/TDC publication, has been in circulation in various forms for more than six months. One hardly needs the reactions of a Ninja to react to any concerns within that timeframe, though given Labour’s lethargy in reacting to the first run on a UK Bank since 1866, perhaps that shouldn’t be a surprise.

Whatever – if Cllr Hart has any concerns over the plans for Fort Hill, he has had ample opportunity to raise these in that time, up to and including a question in full Council. He has not.

It reminds me of Cllr Hart’s claims three years ago to have “finally discovered TDC's true intentions with regard to the large open green space in Dalby Square.” The land in question, owned by TDC (and therefore owned by us all) had in fact been informally scheduled for disposal for a considerable number of years before this.

We all understand that those who rely on politics as their means of livelihood (which I do not) will, currently, be unusually concerned to gain publicity, what with the County elections looming, but there must surely be better ways of doing that than this.

As regards the Fort Hill land, the only development supported by the Conservative Group has been, and remains, conversion to green space for public access, which, incidentally, it was not in Turner’s days, if contemporary drawings are to be believed. End of story.

As regards the Rendezvous site, it may serve the public interest better if we did indeed stick to the facts. After a process of short-listing, the preferred developer will be selected, I understand, on Thursday of this week.

After that, the Council can expect to receive a planning application from the selected developer. Any planning application for the Rendezvous site will be under the sole jurisdiction of Thanet District Council, and its Planning Committee, of which Cllr Hart is a prominent and experienced member.

On Cllr Hart’s last point, I am not sure what he is saying here. Cllr Dr. Alasdair Bruce is also a member of the planning committee, and a Cliftonville resident, as well as being an expert in issues related to the environment and Thanet’s coastline. It is not for me to speak for him, but I would be surprised if he were not to take an unusual interest in the site.

For my own part, well, all elected Councillors should, in my view, take a keen interest in plans for any key area of the Island, which the Turner/Rendezvous/Fort Hill site certainly is.

I am grateful to Cllr Hart, and commend him for his support in opposing two particularly overbearing and unsuitable planning applications in my own Ward (Bradstowe) in the past six months, and I am a little surprised he does not appear to want my support in opposing any similarly unsuitable plans, if they should appear, for the Fort Hill or Rendezvous sites.

Cllr Ewen Cameron